pardon my crankypants

[lanning]

But I'm a geezer, so when I see rants like

So, speaking of Star Trek, I'm just going to complain for a minute about how TOTALLY IDIOTIC it is that Spock is half-human. THAT IS NOT HOW PROCREATION WORKS. A species is a discrete group of organisms that can only breed successfully with other members of that group. Since the Star Trek universe posits that humans and Vulcans are two different species, THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REPRODUCE.

I just go NO!!! REALLY? HONEST AND FOR TRUE? (Jesus wept.) HELLO? HELLO? Is it 19 frakkin' 72? Did we not cover this in class? Was this question not asked and debated and resolved decades ago? GREAT HORNY TOADS!

Yes, yes, I know they're newbies. But do they really think that for forty years (Forty. Years. Four. Times Ten. Forty.) nobody noticed that Spock was a biological improbability? Really? All the fans -- many notable scientists among them -- that preceded their speshul and bwilliant wung selves were just too stupid to notice this? *hands* RESEARCH, people. RESEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND. Whether the older fans are of the Handwave School or the Genetic Engineering School of Spock Origin, they have (I sense your astonishment, my wee ones, but yes, they have) actually given the matter some thought.

I now yield the floor to more pleasant people. Your patience with my horribly cranky self is deeply appreciated. :)

Comments

[From: rainbow]

*giggles*

yes.

[From: lanning]

*sigh* I will never be zen. Zen is just not my natural state. *g*

[From: rainbow]

Really? I always think of you as Queen of the Zen because of your zen icons!

I'm trying some refocusing for myself *nod* see if I can get back the functionality I've lost lately.

Aren't Romulans and Vulcans related in canon anyway? (from the original show; I've never seen the others).

[From: lanning]

Yes, the Romulans are descendants of Vulcans who rejected the teachings of Surak and founded their own colony on Romulus, so they are really the same species.

One of the reasons I make all those zen icons is that it calms and centers me -- because I am in constant need of calming and centering. ;) But it doesn't come naturally.

[From: ratcreature]

Augh. Didn't Trek even have some explanation for why many aliens look so much like human, like all those were seeded by some prior species that dropped some DNA off? I vaguely remember some TNG ep explaining this. So that would explain why the building blocks are compatible.

And even discarding advanced technological assistance, it's not like different species never reproduce, like there's all the lion/tiger mixes, mules of course, donkeys and zebras, goats and sheep, camels and llama, even chicken and turkeys can produce hybrids and those aren't even that closely related. I mean nobody would confuse a camel with a llama or a chicken with a turkey, whereas, green blood aside, Vulcans and humans seem quite similar. I'm no biologist but in practice the definition of "species" as groups that can't reproduce with each other doesn't really work all that neatly.

[From: lanning]

Absolutely. Even in genetics, there are exceptions to every rule. And yes, I remember that episode -- it works very nicely as an explanation of why some species would be compatible. Can we make the newbies watch the eps? It would do my blood pressure so much good. *g*

[From: ratcreature]

Heh. You know, it's not like I'm a hardcore Trek fan. Actually I haven't even watched TOS much, but at least glancing at any one of the multiple ST wikis should be a fact-check requirement.

[From: alysswolf]

This issue of why there can be cross-breeding between the various humanoid races (Vulcans, Klingons, Humans, Cardassians) was addressed in a 6th seasons ST:NG episode called "The Chase." Here's a wiki synopsis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chase_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation).

I suspect the writers stretched the science of genetics and evolution like saltwater taffy but at least they tried to come up with an explanation based on existing examples of cross-breeding in the real world. Even way back in the days when fanfic was passed around on mimeographed pages, this issue was addressed in all sorts of ways. Just love people who come into an existing fandom and think they are asking questions no one was ever bright enough to ask before. ::sigh::

[From: lanning]

I always loved that episode. :) And yes, of course, the writers played fast and loose with genetics (as we understand it), but when you're speculating about the science of the future, fast and loose is your best bet. *g*

And *yes*. It's the poster's assumption that no one in the past 40 years has considered this problem that drove me up the proverbial wall. When I'm new to a fandom, I don't lecture. I ask. Oy.

[From: montanaharper]

Also? I think they canon handwaved this in one of the more recent franchises (I want to say Voyager, but I'm not positive). So yes, research, people. It's what keeps you from looking like a moron. *g*

ETA: People who are faster than me have pointed out it was TNG. (Again, an argument for research. *g*)

[From: lanning]

Absolutely. Research is *always* your friend. And it's not as if a new fan can't ask. There are thousands of older Trek fans who are all too happy to prattle on about ST canon 'till the cows come home. *g*

[From: twistedchick]

sigh.

Point them toward the zines, the eps, and the research and get out of the way. It's not your problem.

[From: lanning]

Oh, I know. I just needed to vent some steam. Does this make me a bitter old fandom queen, too? *g*

[From: twistedchick]

Vent all you like, sweetie. I'm claiming the BOFQ title because that way the less researched crowd is going to figure I'm too old and cranky to try to convert, so they'll go around me instead of fighting. Or so I hope. Besides, it's a nice bittern.

[From: niqaeli]

Ahahahahaaaaaa.

Spock's existence is the bane of my existence and I sometimes cry as I attempt to reconcile what I believe must be true of Vulcan physiology with his half-breed nature -- I'm a biology geek and, seriously. Headaches and tears. And, oh yes, a firm, firm belief in the Genetic Engineering School of Spock Origin.

But, goodness, I'm under no delusions that this is a topic that has not been considered by fen before me. Lord. Are the baby fen really so disconnected and unaware of their history? ...no, don't answer that. Sigh.

[From: lanning]

*laughing* Well, I can't say I feel your pain, because I'm equally happy with handwaving or genetic engineering, but I certainly appreciate your dilemma. And yes, they appear to firmly believe that the only canon that exists is Reboot canon, and the only fans who have discussed these issues are (new to Trek) Reboot fans.

They also invented fandom, fan fiction, and the whole damn internet. Impressive, yes? *g*

[From: niqaeli]

Heh; I imagine few people truly share my pain! Being a biology wonk with a particular fascination with mutation and evolutionary adaptations comes with its pitfalls. But, you know, I'll grant Handwave as a perfectly acceptable solution from the fans. Well, and the later writers for that matter who were, like the fen, stuck working with what they already had.

And goodness! They certainly are productive little fanthings, then, aren't they. Inventing everything from scratch, with no help of those who've gone before, must be rough. *snorts!*